MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
It's said that any decision that reaches a president's desk is a hard one. The decision Joe Biden announced yesterday was one that only a handful of presidents before him have made. Biden is dropping out of the 2024 campaign and he's endorsing his vice president, Kamala Harris.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Our colleagues at NPR stations across the country asked voters what they're making of this historic moment. Dustin Ferzacca of New Hampshire says he's been conflicted watching Biden struggle with his future.
DUSTIN FERZACCA: Honestly, I think I'm just kind of relieved that there is a decision one way or the other, right? We actually know, at least as a party, we can go forward.
MARTÍNEZ: In Wisconsin, Greg Sommers (ph) said it was better for Biden to pull off the Band-Aid now than wait too long.
GREG SOMMERS: It's sad. I mean, he's done a really good job as president. But it's pretty clear that he was not going to be able to, A, win the election, and even if he did, in four more years he would not be able to serve.
MARTÍNEZ: And Carol Chellman, also from New Hampshire, said Biden's indecision was becoming a lose-lose situation for Democrats.
CAROL CHELLMAN: I was getting really annoyed at Biden about what had happened and him sort of, like, not accepting how bad it was and what people saw with their own two eyes. And so I was starting to get annoyed. And I was almost thinking, I may not vote for you (laughter).
MARTIN: We've asked Howard Dean to come back on to talk with us about what's next. He's a former Vermont governor, a former chair of the Democratic National Committee and a former presidential candidate himself. Governor, welcome back. Thanks for joining us.
HOWARD DEAN: Thanks for having me on.
MARTIN: So three weeks ago, you and I spoke. And you told us you weren't sold on the idea that Biden should leave the race. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
DEAN: I'd think I'd hang in there. It would be incredibly ugly to try to change nominees now.
MARTIN: So what are your thoughts now, Governor?
DEAN: Well, you know, presidents change nominees now. So, you know, I think this is very sad. I think Biden's had possibly the best domestic term of any president since Lyndon Johnson. It's just extraordinary, and he did the right thing. The issue - you know, politics just isn't fair. I think he could have made it through the next four years and served us well, but the truth is he probably couldn't get elected. Sometimes it's like the scream speech with me. Sometimes when something happens like that, it may not be fair, but that's what you got to live with. And Joe did the right thing for the country.
MARTIN: If you were the party chair now, how would you structure this process over the next few weeks leading up to the convention to minimize what you call, like, the ugliness that you sort of foresaw?
DEAN: I think we're focusing on the wrong thing. We've already had virtually every potential viable candidate say they're not going to run and they support Kamala Harris, so now we're going to get down to the vanity candidates who may want to run. And that's fine, and they'll get a few delegates at the convention. But it looks like everything is going to line up behind Kamala Harris.
MARTIN: OK. But the Republicans are already criticizing the Democrats for picking a president through what they are calling an undemocratic process. How would you respond to that?
DEAN: I would laugh and say the Republicans are the last people to talk about a democratic process. They have a corrupt Supreme Court who they've appointed through undemocratic processes. They fundamentally don't believe in democracy. And Trump never talks about democracy. He always talks about what he's going to do. So, you know, the Republicans can say what they want. But they're basically selling hate and anger, and I don't think that wins in the general election.
MARTIN: You said that you feel like, in a way, that the potentially viable candidates have already kind of gone through the process, or they've already sort of been tested in some way. Can you just say more about what you mean by that?
DEAN: Well, I mean, you know, people like Gavin Newsom, who certainly would've been a potential candidate if he wanted to run as the governor of the largest state in the country, has already said he's supporting Harris. And there are others like that who could potentially be candidates. But I haven't seen anybody seriously put their hand up, and unless something scandalous happens in the next couple of weeks, I don't think that is going to happen. And there's a coalescence around Kamala Harris. And I think that's the way it goes. And will there be a unanimous vote at the convention? Probably not the first ballot. But it'll be a small number of people who have other ideas, and they're welcome to those other ideas. Unlike the Republicans, we really do believe in the democratic process.
MARTIN: What should the party prioritize when preparing this new ticket? I mean, at this point, I'm obviously thinking the vice president nominee, you know, first.
DEAN: Right.
MARTIN: But that and what else?
DEAN: Well, that's the biggest thing. The advantage that Harris has that nobody else can match is her accessibility to the campaign funds that they've already raised. It's the Biden-Harris committee. Both of them have signed it. Nobody else has. Now, I'm pretty sure we could use that money eventually for a different candidate, but there'd be a lot of jumping around and moving stuff legally, legal hocus pocus. And, you know, I just don't think that is - I think that's a tough wall to climb. But again, I haven't heard any serious - what I would consider serious candidates with presidential timber say that he wasn't going to - or she wasn't going to support Kamala Harris. So I think - you know, people will raise this issue of the democratic process mostly to attack the Democrats, as the Republicans are doing. I have not heard a big uprising in the Democratic Party about picking Kamala Harris, and I think that's what's going to happen.
MARTIN: And do you have thoughts about who you think a strong vice presidential nominee would be?
DEAN: Well, this is not my choice. You know, there were three candidates mentioned last night, all of whom I think would be terrific. And I think Vice President Harris has served with a couple of them as attorney general. One is Roy Cooper, who's a retiring governor of North Carolina, very popular. North Carolina, I think, will be a swing state, partly because they have - Republicans have a lunatic running for governor. And I think certainly Josh Shapiro from Pennsylvania is very popular - swing state. And the other interesting choice I hadn't thought of, but he's going to be in the conversation, is Senator Mark Kelly from Arizona, another swing state.
MARTIN: OK. That is former Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean. Governor, thank you so much for joining us once again.
DEAN: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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