This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
Expanding access and opportunities to the arts are top priorities on both Janet Brown and Maren Engel's to-do lists.
Janet Brown is a nonprofit arts consultant and former president and CEO of Grantmakers in the Arts. She is also the Sioux Falls Arts Task Force Facilitator and consultant for the new Sioux Falls Arts Commission.
Maren Engel is stepping into the newly created role of City of Sioux Falls Arts Coordinator.
Brown and Engel join "In the Moment" for a live broadcast from the 2024 South Dakota Arts Conference at the Washington Pavilion.
They talk about the need for arts advocacy and how we can find our sense of place within the arts and humanities.
They present "Patience, Persistence and Partnerships: How Arts Advocates Succeeded at City Hall" Saturday, June 8th at 10:30 a.m. at the Washington Pavilion.
This transcript was autogenerated.
Lori Walsh:
You're listening to In The Moment on SDPB. I am your host, Lori Walsh. We are broadcasting live today, from the Washington Pavilion in Sioux Falls. We are tucked into the Schulte Room, as people are starting to arrive and register for the 2024 State Arts Conference. We're going to start the hour by getting to know a few of this weekend's presenters.
Janet Brown is a nonprofit arts consultant, and former president and CEO of Grantmakers in the Arts. Those are just two of her titles in a long career in the arts ecosystem. Maren Engel is the City of Sioux Falls arts coordinator. Maren, as well, has numerous arts related credits and stage credits. But let's get right to our conversation.
Janet Brown, welcome to In The Moment.
Janet Brown:
Thank you.
Lori Walsh:
Thank you so much.
Janet Brown:
Thank you so much. It's wonderful to be here.
Lori Walsh:
Maren Engel, thank you for being here as well.
Maren Engel:
We're excited to be here.
Lori Walsh:
This is a lot of energy that comes into the City of Sioux Falls this year. I think two years ago, we were in Rapid City, across the state. But it's also serious business.
I want to start by, we were talking with Randy Cohen and Andrew Reinartz yesterday when they stopped by the studio. You'll hear a little bit of that audio on today's show. But one of the things I asked them was there are students who go to college and pick writing, English, theater, music. People say, "What are you going to do?"
Maren Engel:
Heard that before.
Lori Walsh:
"What are you going to do with that?" And yet, the arts industry is enormous, with supporting thousands of jobs, even here in South Dakota.
Janet, did you start out as an arts lover as a student? Did people say to what in the world will you do with that? Tell us a little bit about how you got here.
Janet Brown:
Oh, gosh. Well, really I went to the University of South Dakota as a freshman. I grew up in Dell Rapids, so we didn't have a big arts program back when I was in high school. Auditioned with a friend of mine for a production of Hello, Dolly. We were always singers. We were all good Norwegian Lutheran singers in my family. I got cast in the chorus. Through that process, and the people, I found a home. I found a home at school. Fell in love with the theater, and changed my major from psychology to a theater major. They're kind of the same, sometimes. But yeah, that's where I started and that led to this amazing journey that has been my career. Which is sometimes, I look back and think, "Really? Gosh. That?"
Lori Walsh:
What lit you up about policy, and advocacy, and research that kept pulling you? And production, and touring with companies. What made you keep coming back for more and more in those kinds of roles?
Janet Brown:
I think when I was executive director of South Dakotans For the Arts, and really our role was to help Art South Dakota, to help advocate for funding for the arts, and the for policies in the state legislature. I realized that there's a lot of misinformation about how art is important and how it fulfills quality of life issues in a community. I wanted to promote the fact that government needed to be more involved in the arts, be it as they were in parks and recreation, as they are in sports and athletics fields, and all of those kinds of issues. The arts have as much to give.
But we're a nation that wasn't really founded on art support. We're a nation founded by people trying to get away from the monarchy, and the monarchy meant artists, and that kind of thing. We have a very different defacto policy in this country about supporting the arts. We're always in the advocacy mode, we're always there. Early on, when I was working with art councils in the state, I realized that a lot of folks didn't see themselves as powerful in their community, even though they brought people to community theater, and they had gatherings, and they were well known. But they didn't see themselves as a political force. I wanted to change that.
That led to my going back to school and getting a Master's in public administration, which is the degree that lets you be a city manager, which is pretty much a joke to me. Me, thinking of myself as a city manager. But I wanted to connect those two things. If we're going to grow culturally, we have to have those influences in our state, and in our cities, in our counties, and in our Federal government that see this as relevant. We can only do that by speaking out and stepping up.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Maren, what brought you to this place? Because this is the first time the City of Sioux Falls has had your position, as I understand it.
Maren Engel:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Tell us a little bit about that journey.
Maren Engel:
Yeah, absolutely. I have a lot of people to thank for making this position possible. A lot of the people that will be at the conference today, and of course, Janet Brown included. It's a really exciting time in the arts in Sioux Falls. For this position, for the first time, to be a priority for the city is pretty special and pretty exciting. There's a lot of momentum.
To your point about being an art student and getting that question about what can you do with this, it was never a question for me. I went to Augustana as a music major. My parents, who are very supportive, but had many questions about why is this the route I'm going to go. When you're an artist, it's hard to think about anything other than, "This is what makes me who I am and it's just what I have to do." That was my priority in college as well. It's been exciting to say I just had a conversation with my parents this week about, "This is my career now." I've really stayed the course as an artist. Now I'm getting to do this really special, new position to advocate for my community, which is the arts community here in Sioux Falls.
Lori Walsh:
I started out studying the humanities. That was my declared major, was the humanities. Everybody said, "What?"
Maren Engel:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
What even is that? If I had known then I could say, "I will be a public radio host with this job." But I just was interested in taking the classes that I thought I wanted to learn something in. Sometimes just following your bliss-
Janet Brown:
No, that's right.
Lori Walsh:
Is not a bad way to begin.
Janet Brown:
No, that's right.
Lori Walsh:
However, you also have to think about the data behind the story, and the numbers, and the research. Janet, talk a little bit about ... This is going to be you're presenting here, we have a live audience here in the Schulte Room, where you will be talking to these people about effective advocacy and building partners on a local level. For people who couldn't make it to the conference but are listening from rural South Dakota, what makes good advocacy for arts organizations and artists?
Janet Brown:
Advocacy is like public awareness. It's all about relationship building, and understanding what you have to offer, and it's a partnership. I bring this to the table, and I'm asking you to bring what you bring to the table. Whether that's with city, county governments, or state legislatures, or whatever. There always has to be this compromise.
I think one of the things that we learned during the culture wars of the '90s, because that was a huge shock to us. All of a sudden, no more National Endowment For the Arts. "We're going to vote them, we're going to disband them." We never had really thought of ourselves as either partisan or political. The arts were always a safe space. This need to become part of that political system became paramount then. That's really when you saw states developing citizen groups, like Arts South Dakota, Arts Wisconsin, Minnesota Citizens For the Arts. That kind of collective voice. That we have power because we have collective voice.
That really is powerful, but it also makes you successful because you bring with you not just one person saying, "Gee, Mr. Mayor, I wish you would support the arts more, that would be nice for everyone." But you come at it with some industry-wide strength and a group behind you. You can't be a leader without followers.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah.
Janet Brown:
It's that, it's relationships. It's all about relationships.
Lori Walsh:
Maren, talk a little bit about the City of Sioux Falls, because as it continues to grow ... We're going to hear about Sculpture Walk in a little bit, we have Arc of Dreams, we have the Statue of David here. The Good Night Theater Collective, the Washington Pavilion, the South Dakota Symphony Orchestra. Many of these organizations are based in the city and it's growing. You want that innovation. You want those artists to feel free to create what they know needs to be created to innovate, to push the boundaries of what art can be. But yet, you're also working in city government and navigating some of the realities of that. Tell me how you think about bringing yourself to that role.
Maren Engel:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Because that's complicated stuff.
Maren Engel:
It is, it is. It's shifting, really. As we're talking about advocacy, it's really shifting the way that I am now advocating for the arts. You hear people talk about how slow moving government can be. But it takes dedication, and it takes collaboration, and working with the right people to propel things forward. As a city employee now, I really see this position as a facilitator between our city government and our arts community. I've spent my first month on the job really meeting and connecting with as many artists in this community as I can, to hear their hopes, their dreams, the things they struggle with.
Lori Walsh:
What are they telling you?
Maren Engel:
Well, so many things. I think as far as how they view city government, the thing that I'm hearing so much is that they desire transparency in process. How does the city make decisions about the arts? How can they make those decisions while also listening to the needs of the community? It's really exciting to see the city recognize that they need somebody who can speak that artistic language and bring the right people to the table in the arts community. So that we're going in a direction that's not just good for our city as a whole, but also particularly good for the artists that are adding to all of that economic success in our community. Trying to bridge, I think, that relationship between the community and the city is really a big focus.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Janet, as an arts journalist for a number of years, I know that this is not always an easy conversation. We do not have time to unpack every arts controversy that we've already had, or that we will have in the future. But people like me are watching. What is the role of an arts advocate to say, "We don't want watered down arts content. We want to create a First Amendment space where artists can do and say what they need to do and say." On the other hand, there are physical realities, there are political realities. You've been through all of this and more. You've been a vibrant advocate for racial equity in the arts.
You mentioned the '90s. Here we are again, in a world where talking about diversity and inclusion can be controversial in and of itself in the political space. And yet, we know those disparities still exist and we know something needs to be done about them. Help us sort through, through your experience, the moment that we're in now. And, how we can come to the table and talk about things in a way that is a candid conversation without sending everybody scattering out the door.
Janet Brown:
Right. That's not a small question.
Lori Walsh:
Oh, no.
Janet Brown:
Thank you for letting me describe the 40 years of my career, or 50, or how many.
This is the dilemma that artists live with, is that I always think of artists as bringing truth and beauty. Truth is not always beautiful. But somebody needs to tell that truth. Now, how that artist goes about telling that truth is where you can get into political trouble. That has to do with relationships, and policies, and procedures that are not either transparent, or aren't fair, or are inequitable.
The idea that artists can do whatever they want to is fine, is great, is what it should be. But when that artist decides to ask someone for money, and that money comes from taxpayers, then there is some restriction that is just realistic. It doesn't have to be this way, it wouldn't have to be this way. Certainly, European governments deal with this way differently than the United States does. But in our climate, one has to tread carefully and one has to understand the policies of government. That's why I'm so proud of Maren, and so proud of the city for creating this position because, even the City if Sioux Falls, for all the art it supports, has no real policies and procedures in place for that support.
It's really tricky. I think there's a big difference between art being censored, and then also understanding who paid for that art and what message that sends. Then we have to understand that elected officials have to defend themselves on a daily basis. It's our job to give them the tools that, when they walk down the street and somebody says, "Why are you wasting all that money on that big art piece?" What's that politician's for that? Where does he get that answer, or she get that answer? Well, they need to get that answer from us. If we're not developing those relationships and we're not the resource for where that answer is going to come from ... It's all tied together. We have a very complex form of government.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah, yeah.
Janet Brown:
It's not easy for artists. There are just artists who will never fit into that mold of being able to work for government because they don't want those strings.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah.
Janet Brown:
God bless them, because they will find patrons who will support their work.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah.
Janet Brown:
There's no question.
Lori Walsh:
Keep making things.
Janet Brown:
Keep making things.
Lori Walsh:
If you haven't figured out what this arts conference is about and the kinds of conversations that are going to happen over this weekend, I hope that gives you just a little spark to say if you didn't sign up this year and make the trip, for whatever reason, maybe your resources are limited, plugging into these organizations might really open up some of that conversation for you.
I want to pivot a little bit and talk about arts education. Because, Maren, you come from Augustana, you've done some work there. I'm an Augustana graduate. Janet, Eugene Field A+ Elementary School in Sioux Falls would not exist as an arts school if it were not for you. My daughter went there and this is my elementary school of choice. I love this place.
Let's talk for a little bit about bringing up the next generation of artists. Not just arts policy makers, not just arts journalists, but the artists themselves. The people who are on the stage, like Maren is in her theater work. It's an exciting thing. We'll start with you. Talk about Augustana University, and really recruiting freshmen.
Maren Engel:
Oh, yeah.
Lori Walsh:
First year students who were interested in the arts.
Maren Engel:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Then helping funnel them into careers in the arts in South Dakota, so we have our next generation-
Maren Engel:
Absolutely.
Lori Walsh:
Of musicians, and performers, and visual artists, and photographers, and dancers, and filmmakers.
Maren Engel:
Yeah. I was really lucky. I grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and went to a high school that had just an unbelievable music education program. That, I think if I hadn't had that experience, I wouldn't have maybe been brave enough to choose Augustana and say, "I'm going to study music. I can do this. This is what I want to do with my career. I don't know exactly what it will look like, but this has to be a part of my life."
I think when I was recruiting young high school students, high school seniors to Augustana, it was such an interesting job. Because you have students who are coming to Augustana, and they're going to major in pre-med, but the real reason they're coming to Augustana is that they want to study pre-med and they want to be as involved in the arts as they can be. Then on the flip side, students who are making that decision to go in all the way in the arts and figure it out as they go. I talked to so many students about this and I still talk about it.
I'm giving away my age, but I'm about to be 34-years-old. This career that I've taken the with the city is one of the first careers that I've had that has really aligned with me so well. It's because I really trusted my path as an artist, and was patient, and took every opportunity to learn as a fundraiser in nonprofit, and it led me to this career in the arts. That was always the goal. I firmly believe that, this generation right now that's coming up, the opportunities in the arts, there's more than there's ever been.
We're here at a conference where a big discussion point is art and economics. That's an exciting thing to be talking about because that's jobs. It's this idea that the arts is bringing a successful economic landscape to our city, so there will be jobs to help continue to make that happen. I think to Janet's point, educating people about the value of art. People who are not artists who need to see that art is contributing to so much to our city is a huge step in the right direction.
Lori Walsh:
Janet, in your experience with arts education and the importance of it ... Randy Cohen and Andrew Reinartz do a great job about talking about just creativity in innovation if you're an engineer, if you're an architect, if you are a physician, if you're a lawyer. But what about the kids who are actually artists? The kids who say, "I want to be on the stage." If you could address that for a minute, that would fill out everything that we're talking about today.
Janet Brown:
Well, you may not like my answer to that, actually because I don't worry about those people.
Lori Walsh:
Okay.
Janet Brown:
I don't. I think Maren said it. I said this to my kids when they both decided ... I thought my kids, one was going to be a lawyer and the other one was going to be a physicist. It ended up that she's a stage manager and he's a lighting designer for theater. It's like, "What?" I said, "If you cannot not do it, then be an artist."
Maren Engel:
Yeah.
Janet Brown:
If you cannot not do it. Those people will always be with us and there will be a path for them, no matter where they go, no matter what little town they grew up in. Dale Lamphere's story is one of the best. If you don't know Dale's story, write him a letter, call him up, or ask him what it is because it's truly phenomenal.
I worry about the other kids. I worry about not having enough arts education so that a kid can say, "Oh look, I got to perform in this event, and that gave me so much confidence that now I can get up and speak in front of the class. That takes me into college, where now I can be ..." Using the tools that the arts give you as a person, and as a appreciator of art. Well, we need more appreciators of art, that understand why artists are important, and have a value system about what they like and what they don't like. That's the nice thing about art is we all like something different.
Maren Engel:
When there's more appreciators of art, then there's more opportunity-
Janet Brown:
Then there's more opportunities for artists.
Maren Engel:
For the artists who want to be artists.
Janet Brown:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
I like your answer very much.
Janet Brown:
Okay, thank you.
Maren Engel:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
All right. We are going to wrap up here. But I want to say to Janet Brown, because you've never been on the show before and I've never interviewed you before, that because of the work that you have done, you have changed my life. I read what you have created that needs to be read. I took my daughter to the school that you created that had changed her life, that changed my life as an artist because they invited me as a parent to show up, and volunteer, and teach those kids writing, and be in those classrooms. The list of your resume, I can say, "That, that, that, that, and that" has transformed how I live in this community, why I stay in this community, and why I'm proud of this community. I love you, and thank you for the work that you have done. It has meant so much to me personally. That is my point of privilege as a host of the show, I get to say that. Thank you for being here.
Janet Brown:
Thank you. You've made me cry. I haven't even started a session yet. Thank you, Lori.
Lori Walsh:
Her session is coming up at 1:00 PM and 3:15 on the topic of arts advocacy today, on Friday. Then, Maren and Janet will present a Patience, Persistence and Partnerships: How Arts Advocates Succeeded at City Hall. That's tomorrow, June 8th, at 10:30. We're going to put links up to this on our website.
We are live today, in front of this beautiful audience here at the arts conference at the Washington Pavilion in Sioux Falls, in the Schulte Room. Stop by and say hi to us. Thank you for that.
Janet Brown:
Thank you.
