Russian drones entering Polish airspace was "an intentional act" meant to test the U.S. and NATO allies and send a "warning," says Kurt Volker, former U.S. Ambassador to NATO.
"You don't have that number of drones and that distance into Poland without it being deliberate by the Russian side," Volker, who served as NATO Ambassador under former President George W. Bush, said in an interview with Morning Edition.
NATO fighter jets shot down multiple Russian drones Wednesday after they entered Polish airspace near the country's eastern border with Ukraine. European officials described the act as deliberate provocation by Russia. It was the first time in NATO's history that alliance fighter jets engaged enemy targets in allied airspace.
European and NATO leaders condemned the incident as one of the most serious escalations by Moscow since its invasion of Ukraine. Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on CNN he has not been briefed about the news, but it would be "incredibly serious if there were Russian aerial assets flying over a NATO country," adding "probably not smart for me to engage in speculation before having a briefing on it."
President Donald Trump plans to speak with Polish President Karol Nawrocki Thursday, according to a White House official who spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of the call.
NATO and Polish officials said they are awaiting the results of a military assessment before deciding how to respond. It remains unclear how many drones were involved.
On Thursday, Polish authorities said they had found wreckage from at least nine drones near the border with Ukraine. NPR's Rob Schmitz reports the drones were "Shahed-like" models, similar to the kind Russia has used in attacks on Ukrainian cities, and appeared to be unarmed decoys meant to confuse air defenses.
The latest incident prompted Poland to invoke Article 4 of the NATO treaty, which calls for consultations among allies. The Kremlin gave shifting explanations, suggesting interference may have caused an accident and denying Russian drones could reach Poland, a claim that is not true.
In 2022, two civilians were killed when a Ukrainian air defense missile, fired to intercept a Russian strike, hit a village near the border.
In a conversation with NPR's Michel Martin, Volker said the drone incident was Russia testing NATO's resolve and raised broader questions about how the alliance should respond.
This interview is lightly edited for length and clarity.
Interview highlights
Michel Martin: Based on what you know now, do you view this as an intentional act? Is the war in Ukraine spilling over into another country?
Kurt Volker: Well, two different questions there. It is definitely an intentional act. You don't have that number of drones and that distance into Poland without it being deliberate by the Russian side, and I think it was both to test to see how we react, and also to send a warning. But is the war spilling over into Poland? Not yet. I think this is Russia testing and trying to get us to back off of support for Ukraine, and maybe a warning that if we don't, then the war could spill over.
Martin: Poland invoked Article 4 of NATO's treaty, calling for joint consultation with allies. How significant is that consultation?
Volker: Well, it is a step. It is not that big a step, to be perfectly honest. We have meetings at NATO every day, but we put a label on this one and say, OK, this is now formally an Article 4 consultation, which, in a sense, says a country feels a particular security threat, it wants to discuss it with allies, and it could lead to some kind of NATO response. Not necessarily going to war, which would be more under Article 5, but a response of some kind.
Martin: So do you think what happened meets the threshold to invoke Article 5, which, as we just heard, would prompt a response from NATO allies?
Volker: I don't think it meets the threshold for an Article 5 response, which is to say, to attack Russia or to go against Russian military forces. But what I think there should be from NATO is a response that is proportionate and strong to show to Putin that he will not be able to do this again. My advice would be to create an extended air defense zone beyond NATO territory – say, 100 or 200 kilometers – in cooperation with Ukraine. Say NATO will help police that to make sure there are no threats that could actually reach NATO populations.
Martin: Forgive me if I'm asking you to speculate. But do you think that there's an appetite for that?
Volker: No, but I think if we don't do something like that to show a bit of direct and proportionate response to what [Vladimir] Putin has done, he has now set a new baseline for a lack of response from NATO.
Martin: I take your point that these, and also Rob Schmitz' reporting, that these are dummy drones. The whole point is to test. So what do you think that Russian President Vladimir Putin is watching for in terms of how NATO responds?
Volker: Well, I think the first thing that he's watching for was what happened on the night of: did we shoot them down, or did we not shoot them down? As you pointed out, this is the first time we did. This is not the first time that Russian drones or missiles have crossed allied territory, but they didn't come in for as long a time, and so NATO didn't respond in those instances. This time we did. That's a good sign. Secondly, we were able to get nine of the drones. We don't know how many more may have passed through. That may come out in the military assessment that's coming. But then finally, this was a deliberate act by Russia to violate NATO territory, and we didn't know that these were unarmed drones. It's good that they were, but they could have been armed, and they could have threatened NATO populations in Poland. So there ought to be a strong response from NATO to say this must not ever happen again. And thus far, I think Putin is still waiting to see: Is there a strong response or not?
Copyright 2025 NPR
