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In Play with Craig Mattick: Sheri Keck

South Dakota Sports Hall of Fame

She competed in gymnastics at Rapid City Stevens and South Dakota State. She also saw great success coaching gymnastics at Stevens. Sheri Keck joins Craig Mattick on this edition of In Play.

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Craig Mattick:
Welcome to another edition of In Play. I am Craig Mattick. February of 2023, South Dakota celebrated its 50th year of sanctioned gymnastics. Today's guest saw great success as a high school gymnastics coach, six state team titles and a couple of runner-up finishes with Rapid City Stevens. She competed in gymnastics at Stevens and at South Dakota State. She also competed and coached track, and even coached sideline cheer and competitive cheer. A coach and a teacher for many years, joining us from Rapid City, is Sheri Keck. Sheri, welcome to In Play.

Sheri Keck:
Thanks for having me.

Craig Mattick:
South Dakota had its first sanctioned state high school gymnastics meet in 1974, and you were in it. I think you were about a sophomore at the time. What was that first state meet like?

Sheri Keck:
I just felt so privileged to be able to compete in a girl sport because, of course, Title IX was in '72, and we went from basically no state meets to being able to compete for your school and have a state meet. So it was very thrilling, but it was very long. I remember that we were competing up to 11 o'clock at night, because we did an optional routine and then we had to go through optional routines, too. So it was a way different format and quite long, and still though just excited to be able to do that.

Craig Mattick:
The Olympics have always seemed to be huge for growing the sport of gymnastics over the decades. 1968, the Olympics, it was Cathy Rigby in the US that made a big name for her and the sport. 1972, of course Munich, the Olympics, Olga Korbut. And, of course, 1976 with Nadia Comaneci and her perfect marks. But it just seemed that the Olympics was always a big, big plus for gymnastics. How about you? Late '60s, early '70s. How did you get into gymnastics?

Sheri Keck:
I was in ballet before I was in gymnastics, and I just happened to be in the gym and a gal named Linda Cushman, who ended up later being on my team, said, "Oh, you should try this." So I just, as a fluke, started gymnastics and fell in love with the adventure and the excitement of gymnastics versus ballet, even though I loved ballet. But I loved the idea of being able to compete for my sport. So it was a fluke that I got into gymnastics, and it was all because of one gal in the gym asked me to come out.

Craig Mattick:
So it wasn't necessarily Olga Korbut or Cathy Rigby or one of those in the Olympics that spark you into getting into the sport?

Sheri Keck:
No. Of course, I loved watching, but I guess it was just a classmate that showed me some interest, and I fell in love with it.

Craig Mattick:
During your high school years at Rapid City Stevens, how much time did you spend on gymnastics?

Sheri Keck:
Back then I was a three-sport athlete, so I went from cross country to gymnastics to track, and then played some softball in the off season. There were no gymnastics clubs, so my training was sport to sport to sport. Then I did sideline cheer. Of course, you had to have some social in there, but-

Craig Mattick:
Well, yeah.

Sheri Keck:
So it was pretty much in season only and push hard through the season, do the best you could, and then onto the next sport.

Craig Mattick:
Of course, you have in gymnastics, you have the balance beam, the uneven bars, the vault, the floor exercise. Which one is the hardest?

Sheri Keck:
They all have their concerns or their problems. I would say bars, because girls struggle with upper body strength. So I would say between the strength and the timing of that event, it's probably one of your toughest. Balance beam, of course, you have the height and the narrowness of the beam, but it seems like that you can master a little bit easier than unevens.

Craig Mattick:
A six-inch wide balance beam, easy to fall off. Easy to fall everywhere in gymnastics. Did you sustain any injuries that hampered you for a while?

Sheri Keck:
My freshman year of high school, I was racing my dad skiing on the weekend and broke my thumb. So that wasn't great. My coach wasn't real thrilled about that. But otherwise, I was pretty fortunate. I didn't have any major injuries. I did get mono my senior year of track, and that was a bummer. Going into college, I had mononucleosis, which I think every high school kid probably has had some time.

Craig Mattick:
Sure. Was Pat Shephard your coach at Rapid City Stevens?

Sheri Keck:
No, he was not. Joanne Sterner was the coach there when I was in high school. After I graduated, Pat Shephard took over. I did work with Pat in the summers. I coached at the club and helped out. So I knew Pat, and I knew a lot of the gymnasts he coached. So it was fun to see that.

Craig Mattick:
1974 was, of course, the first state meet, and Sioux Falls, Washington and Coach Lolly Forseth won the first four state titles. But then it was Rapid City, Stevens won the next three titles with Coach Shephard. So there was quite a domination between Washington and Stevens. Did you have the same fight between the two schools when you were in gymnastics?

Sheri Keck:
Oh, yeah. We didn't really get to compete too much cross state when I was in high school. Pretty much the only time we saw anybody else was at the state meet. I do remember though, our team traveled. I think it was for state that we stayed at Lucy Lensco's house because there was not a lot of funding for staying overnight. So I think we did go to one meet and we stayed at Lucy Lensco's, who was one of the well-known judges now in the state. Because my coach and Lucy, Joanne Sterner and Lucy, were good friends. And I think that's pretty much true with all the gymnastics coaches. We all bonded together. We all knew each other. We were all fighting the same battle. That's what I think makes gymnastics so unique is a lot of these coaches I either was competed with or worked with at the college level as a college gymnast or a high school gymnast, and then went on to coach with them or against them or judge with them. It's really a unique situation.

Craig Mattick:
South Dakota had one class of gymnastics for just a couple of years before it went to two classes of gymnastics in 1976. Do you remember how many schools in the state had gymnastics those first couple years?

Sheri Keck:
Boy, I don't know the exact number of how many did have it. We just had cross country and then gymnastics, and cheer, and track. Volleyball and basketball didn't come in till my junior year. Then cheer was big back then for girls to be a part of. But I think a lot of the littler schools, they didn't get gymnastics until probably '76.

Craig Mattick:
Yep, 1976 is when a lot of the schools came on board and made it a two-class system. Now, you were active in gymnastics and in track at Rapid City Stevens. Do those two sports compliment each other?

Sheri Keck:
Oh, I believe so. Yeah, because a lot of your jumpers, pole vaulters, sprinters, when you're strong, flexible, and then you've got confidence and you've got flexibility, those add up pretty well for any sport for a kid to be good at. So I encouraged my kids to do both, and I think that's why Stevens was pretty successful, because we had a group of kids go from cross country or cheer to gymnastics to track. That was the sports that were there when I was coaching. Of course, basketball first and then it was volleyball-

Craig Mattick:
That's right.

Sheri Keck:
... at the same time as gymnastics.

Craig Mattick:
That's right. Did you see any success as a gymnast?

Sheri Keck:
Oh, definitely. I can brag on one. My daughter Lindsay was on 12 state championship teams, because she did cross country gymnastics and track. And then my daughter Jamie was on eight. So you look at those. And then I had several other gymnasts like Taylor Baker who was a gymnast and she was in track, and was a state champion in both of those. We had Amber Carpenter and Laura Tieszen. There were several kids that ... Pretty much, I encouraged my whole team to do track just because I thought it was good to build different friendships and good to use different muscle groups and good to compete with boys around. I thought, just to be an all around athlete, it's good to be in more than one sport, and it just shows you you can be. And even if you're not the number one, you're still a contributor. I think that's what kids lose track of today, that they think, "Oh, I'm not that good." It doesn't mean you have to be good. It's just be a part of different kind of a team.

Craig Mattick:
How about you though, personally? 1974, 1975, as a gymnast, how much success did you see yourself?

Sheri Keck:
I saw a success because I was on the first cross country team and I told Gene Bremoth, I said, "I'm not a distance runner. I'm a sprinter." He said, "You're a leader, so I want you to be on there." I learned a lot about not being first, but still being a part of a team and still pushing myself in a different way to be, and finding that you don't have to win to be successful. I think that carried over to gymnastics and it helped me with my endurance for floor. It helped me with my mental toughness. And then that carried over to track where I was already in shape, so I could work more on technique than working on getting in shape. I think it really carried over.

Craig Mattick:
I think it was your senior year ... maybe it wasn't, but I'm just guessing here on this ... Lori Lieberman, I think, was on your team. Of course, she won three individual state titles. Were you and Lori teammates?

Sheri Keck:
Yep, Lori was on the same team I was. She was a gymnast that spent her summers in gymnastics, and she was a one-sport athlete. So she reaped the benefits of doing that and she did a very nice job with it.

Craig Mattick:
How competitive was Rapid City Stevens when you were on the team?

Sheri Keck:
We were pretty darn competitive. We were real close to either second or third, and I thought my senior year in track that we were going to win, and we dropped the baton. I can't remember what relay. Didn't matter. It was like, oh, I think we lost by half a point or a point. Of course, that was disheartening. But yeah, we were pretty darn competitive, and it just got bigger and better as the years gone by and we got clubs and we got different training methods. We were just a little behind Sioux Falls.

Craig Mattick:
Sure. Gymnastics was such a new sport in South Dakota back in the early '70s, those first few years. What was the quality of athleticism like back in the mid '70s in gymnastics?

Sheri Keck:
In gymnastics? I would just remember that the competition was the Sioux Falls schools. For the equipment we had and things, they were very competitive and we were just learning and licking our chops to try and beat them. You look at it, there was no spring floors. They were just mats, and they were usually worn out resting mats, that hand-me-down. Then we had, of course, wooden beams. And the router boards or the beatboards, they were not spring-loaded. I just remember when my gymnasts would complain about something, I'd say, "Oh, try that on a wooden beam." So I didn't have much sympathy, because we had no springs, no nothing, and we were still going for it.

Craig Mattick:
It was a little antiquated back then, wasn't it?

Sheri Keck:
Yes.

Craig Mattick:
You decided to continue gymnastics and track as an athlete at South Dakota State. Did you have any other colleges to choose from or was South Dakota State always on your radar?

Sheri Keck:
I knew I'd probably go in-state, and South Dakota State was the only university that had gymnastics. And then they offered me a little scholarship. For back then, it was big. I think it was the first year they gave college scholarships, and that was back in 1976. It was for $200, and you just thought, "Wow, this is amazing." I didn't think I knew any different. I had to go in some kind of a sport or some kind of activity, because that was just a big part of my life in high school.

Craig Mattick:
What was gymnastics like for you at South Dakota State?

Sheri Keck:
I went into it with mono, so it was a struggle, I would say. Because gymnastics was ... I'm not going to say easy, but it came quite easily to me and, in college, I had to start working and it was hard because I was battling my health, too. So I look back at that and I think, "Oh, I could have been so much better," but I learned what it was like to be on a team and not be the best one king of thing or be one of the better ones. So it was a great learning experience. I learned a lot about myself and I learned a lot about coaching. The gal that recruited me for the high school team also recruited me to be on the SDSU team. She was one of the assistant coaches. She was a very good gymnast in her own right. Linda Graves was her name. Her sister, actually, Gina Graves, tried out for the Olympic gymnastics team, so she knew what it was like to be in gymnastics. It was a struggle, I would say, but I enjoyed it. Met a lot of great people.

Craig Mattick:
I'm assuming your major was education because eventually you became a teacher once you got out of college.

Sheri Keck:
Right. I was a PE major and then I did athletic training. So I was an athletic trainer. So had to do a lot of that, too, during school, and it really came in handy with coaching.

Craig Mattick:
About 1983, you graduate and you go to Spearfish. Was Spearfish your first school after college?

Sheri Keck:
I actually graduated from college in '79. In 1980 I went to Sturgis and taught science and coached gymnast. I was an assistant coach there and athletic trainer for their football team. But I was living in Spearfish and I had to commute. So the next year, Spearfish offered me a job coaching and teaching, and it was in PE, and it was in gymnastics to be the head coach. So I was really glad I did that year at Sturgis, because I was under ... Again, Linda Graves Cushman was my head coach and she taught me so much and I learned so much about the right way to coach and teach, and then took that with me over to Spearfish where I got my head coaching career started.

Craig Mattick:
What was that like that first year as a head coach at Spearfish? How nervous were you and what was it like taking over at Spearfish?

Sheri Keck:
It was very interesting. I just remember there was a little drama, at the time, at the Spearfish High School with the gymnastics. II just remember the principal, or maybe it was the superintendent who interviewed me and said, "If we don't do well at this gymnastics, we're probably going to cut our program next year." I went, "Oh." So they were very interested in me building that program successfully, and we went on to win the conference that year. So I was pretty proud of myself and my team that we battled and the kids, I guess, trust and believed in what I was teaching and coaching. We had a great time and we had a great season, and we ended up winning the conference. That was huge.

Craig Mattick:
Then it was only a couple of years after you left, sure enough, Spearfish wins three titles in a row in gymnastics. What a great story that was.

Sheri Keck:
Yes, that was fun because Le Anne Vette was my assistant for years through all of our struggles, and we were, at that time, AA, and then they dropped to A, which really was nice for Spearfish, because it was more in line with where they should be. We were always just making it into the state meet with the AA, and now they came back to win it. It was nice to see those kids that I watched grow up in the summers at the rec program that we did and grow up to compete well and win with the Le Anne.

Craig Mattick:
Sheri, it's about 1990. You're at Spearfish or so, and all of a sudden this job comes open at a Rapid City Stevens, and you become the assistant gymnastics coach. Then 1991, you become the head coach. How ironic was that going back to your alma mater?

Sheri Keck:

It was really crazy to go full circle like that, but I was excited for the challenge. I had assisted, the year before, Donna Bader, and she said, "I think we should switch. You be the head. I'll be the assistant." I said, "Okay, that sounds good." Because I came back in the middle of the year. My husband got transferred with his job with Black Hills Power and Light. The powers that be lined up, and it was fun to start working in the same gym with the same equipment I was on pretty much, and build the program from there, and work with all the great club people. Cheryl and Bill Allen, they were very beneficial to the high school program. We worked well together. They coached my kids, I coached their kids, and it was just a match made in heaven for gymnastics.

Craig Mattick:
What was the transition like, Sheri, going from an athlete? You were in gymnastics for several years and then you become a coach. What was that transition like?

Sheri Keck:
It's tough that first, especially if you're young. I got my first head coaching job when I was 23, so I was pretty young and probably foolish. But you do have the energy, and you can demonstrate some of the things when you're first coaching. And then you realize that you need to be able to tell them how to do it better than show them.

Craig Mattick:
There's a time you can't leap off the uneven bars or the bars or some of those other apparatus

Sheri Keck:
Right, exactly. Yes. But it was nice that I had done several of the skills that they were doing, because I know how it felt and I knew some of the challenges from that end of it. It was just a matter of being able to better tell them how to do it than show them, and walk them through it step by step. That's when you really know the skill is when you can do that. That took some adjustment, because you're just used to saying, "See, just do it like this. Just do ..." That was the biggest probably transition from athlete to coach. I guess, I think once I had done gymnastics and track in college, I was okay not being an athlete. I was into more into helping others get to their best level.

Craig Mattick:
Who were some of the mentors that you had for coaches that you looked up to, maybe called them up once in a while, asked them a few questions? Do you have some of those mentors?

Sheri Keck:
Yeah. Of course, I've talked about Linda Graves Cushman. Through high school and college, she was huge for me. Bobbie Mooren from Douglas High School has been involved with gymnastics forever. She's one person I can still call up and talk to her about it. Of course, Lucy and Molly from Sioux Falls. I had some of my high school buddies and assistant coaches. Les Frederick was one of my assistants forever, and he was always a good sounding board. Of course, Bill and Cheryl Allen. I just had a lot of people helping me be successful, and I think that's what it takes is you just can't have that big an ego, because nobody knows everything and you just got to admit that, "Hey, I don't know what I'm doing here. What do you think? Is this a better way to do it or this way?" Don't be afraid to ask for lots of help.

Craig Mattick:
Sheri, you had quite the run at Rapid City Stevens, 13 years as the coach, six state titles, two runner up finishes. If it wasn't for Rapid City Central in '96 and 2000, you might have won eight titles in a row.

Sheri Keck:
I know. Those are the ones that bug you the most. Yeah, we were right there. I would say '96, when we didn't win that one, that one, I had two injuries at the state meet. One was the ACL, and we had to fill in the blanks, and we still came up runners up. But that's one I felt like, "Oh man, I thought that was a for sure one." It just goes to show you there's never those for sure ones. Yeah, Randy is another. Like to say Randy Hagen and I are good friends, and he was a good mentor. I ended up coming back and helping him a little bit. But yeah, that darn Central wouldn't have been in there, but I guess it was Rapid City, so that's good.

Craig Mattick:
You don't win those titles though without some great athletes. I'm going to mention a few of them and you give me your first thoughts on these athletes. I'll talk about Taylor Baker first. 13 individual titles. Nobody else has more individual titles than Taylor Baker.

Sheri Keck:
I would say Taylor is very humble. She's very much a hard worker, and she's pretty hard on herself, but she is probably one of the biggest team people you'll ever meet.

Craig Mattick:
Tricia Hahn was on the balance beam for you.

Sheri Keck:
Oh, Tricia. She just made me smile because she was just always a hugger and a crier and just felt everything in her heart and soul. She was just a great hard worker. Just a hard worker.

Craig Mattick:
Laura Tieszen, she had success on the beam.

Sheri Keck:
Oh, Laura Tieszen. She's another one that she just went after it. She was a goal setter. She was a helper. She was very team. She wanted to make sure everybody was doing what they were supposed to do. She was a really good leader.

Craig Mattick:
Beth Godfoy on the bars.

Sheri Keck:
Beth, she was very quiet, but still they all were just very team oriented, hardworking. I think of first, she had amazing flexibility.

Craig Mattick:
Again, these are athletes that you had on those championship teams. Melissa Allen on the vault.

Sheri Keck:
Yep. Melissa Allen was Bill and Cheryl's daughter. She's very smart. She would think through the skill to death, but then go back and keep working until she figured it out.

Craig Mattick:
Two more for you here. One is Erin Jackson on the floor exercise.

Sheri Keck:
Erin, she had some injury things, but she battled through those injuries and still came back to do a nice job on floor and beam. I didn't preach all around as much as I wanted them to do the best at what they liked to do the most. So they didn't have to be an all-arounder. So she was very good beam specialist and floor specialist, and worked very hard at those two and did a nice job.

Craig Mattick:
Last one for you, Jamie Keck. How was that? Your daughter was pretty good on the vault, wasn't she?

Sheri Keck:
Yes. Jamie, she had a great vault and she had great speed. She was a sprinter. And it was always one of those things, if I wanted to correct her, I would tell my assistant and work with her. Because I love being able to coach my two daughters and be on the state championship team with them, but they'd say, "Okay, when we walk in the house, we're not talking about gymnastics." Can't talk about it. We had rules. But no, she was a great, great person to coach. She was a well-rounded kid, and she was a good teammate. It was fun to work with both Jamie and Lindsay.

Craig Mattick:
You were the gymnastics coach at Stevens until 2001. Then what was going on after that?

Sheri Keck:
I told the kids that ... 2001, Lindsay graduated. I told them that I was going to focus now on my son Brian, and I knew I had left the program in good hands. They were at a great level to be very successful still. You hate to walk away, but there's a point where you got to pick one thing over the other. And I had to pick Brian that time to go do some things with him and watch him compete. He did football and track. So I got to do that, which was a lot of fun.

Craig Mattick:
You still stuck around to be an assistant middle school track coach and taught PhyEd. Then you got into cheer coaching. What led you to being the cheer coach?

Sheri Keck:
When the coach couldn't go, I'd sub in and help take the kids. She was leaving and Barb Schmidt and I said, "Let's split this and do this together." We wanted to make it more athletic. The cheerleaders at that time, the crowd was really hard on them. And I said, "We need to make it more athletic. We need to make it more challenging so that the kids won't pick on them." So we went after it, just because the other coach quit and I was like, "Oh, I guess I could do it for a little bit." Then the next thing you know, competitive cheer. They told me in July, "Do you want to coach competitive cheer?" And it started in August. I was like, "Well, I guess so."

Craig Mattick:
2011-

Sheri Keck:
I took-

Craig Mattick:
... Stevens, you took them to the AA state cheer championship in small group stunting and tumbling. I'm assuming some gymnastics moves involved with that.

Sheri Keck:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I recruited my old gymnast that I knew to be on the team, and they weren't real excited about being cheerleaders until I showed them that competitive cheer is very ... It's not easy. It's very gymnastic athletic. Once we got into all that, they fell in love with it. And now Janice Schrader, who owns the club here, was one of my gymnast, and then she ended up going into college gymnastics, and now she has a college cheer club. She helped me through a lot of the competitive cheer stuff.

Craig Mattick:

Sheri, you were inducted into the South Dakota Gymnastics Coaches Hall of Fame in 2000. You were the National High School Gymnastics Coach of the year in 2006. How special were those awards for you?

Sheri Keck:

They're very humbling and I'm very appreciative to be asked or to be inducted into those different hall of fames. It's just a credit to the kids I coached and what they did for me. I just feel so blessed that those kids trusted me enough to lead them and coach them. Then look what happened by us all believing in each other and working. I got these nice coaching awards.

Craig Mattick:

What keeps you busy today?

Sheri Keck:

Those grandkids, those eight grandkids I have, they keep me flying around the country. I've got Ivy Natalie in Minnesota, and I've Camden, Kinley, Body, and Hazel in Harrisburg, South Dakota. And I've got Daphne and Amelia in San Diego. So I get to go between all those states and see them. I'm privileged to work on several different boards. I'm on the South Dakota Sports Hall of Fame board and the Dakota High School Coaches Association, and then on the Stevens High School Hall of Fame board. So those keep me busy. I'm doing a lot of walking and some DYI projects. I've got plenty to do.

Craig Mattick:
What is it with gymnastics? What does gymnastics do for female athletes?

Sheri Keck:
Oh, golly. Gymnastics gives kids the confidence. If you can go out dance around basically in your underwear in front of a bunch of people, you've got to have confidence. So it gives you confidence and grace and flexibility and strength. It gives you lifelong friendships because you work through all this stuff together. It's not like you get something the first time. So you have your teammates cheering for you when you get one thing to the next. So you build lifelong friendships and, I just think, an organization and dedication and all those great attributes that come from working hard.

Craig Mattick:
Today, there are 13 AA schools in gymnastics, 14 class A schools. Of course, the big news before the 2023/24 gymnastics season began, Sioux Falls and Rapid City dropping gymnastics. Lawsuit has kept the Sioux Falls schools in the sport for at least this upcoming season. But how tough was it, Sheri, for you, for your alma mater, the school you coached? You were a gymnast there. You won titles for them. They dropped the sport. How tough was that?

Sheri Keck:
It just puts a hole in your heart, because I just know what all those kids got from being gymnasts. It's just too bad we couldn't figure it out to make it a sport where it could still be a high school sport. It's got to be a lot of people cooperating together to make it work, because there's no middle school. They don't do middle school gymnastics anymore. So you lose that feeder program. You've got to have the gymnastics clubs believing and working with the high school to make it work, or a YMCA. So it's very, very hard to have a high school program without any feeder program or support, basically, coming from that. If you have to pay to play, it really limits your athletes, and it's just hard to keep it going because of those strikes against you. I think that's why the little communities are having it, because their high school is clubs are basically their high school teams, if that makes sense. They all work together, and we've lost that unfortunately.

Craig Mattick:
What does the future hold for gymnastics in South Dakota?

Sheri Keck:
I think it's a tough road because of those factors. When SDSU quit the gymnastics program, we lost the coaches and the judges that fed all the high school programs to judge and coach. So I think it's just going to be a big struggle for them to maintain high school gymnastics, unless they get better support from the club programs and to work with them. Or if they have a good YMCA program or a middle school program, then they have a chance.

Craig Mattick:
Mary Lou Retton was the first American to win a gold medal in gymnastics, and what she did gave the sport a huge boost. Shannon Miller, Shawn Johnson, Aly Raisman, and now it's Simone Biles. She'll be in the upcoming Olympics again. Can she give the sport another big boost?

Sheri Keck:
I truly believe she can. After every Olympics, enrollment goes up, I've heard, at every club. Yeah, what she can do is just amazing. It just shows you what the sport can do for every sport. Or girl's athletics in general. It's just I believe that she will boost gymnastics again.

Craig Mattick:
What do you miss about coaching gymnastics today?

Sheri Keck:
I miss my coaching buddies and I miss the look of the kids on the ... their looks when they come off the equipment and they smile and they wink at you, and that inside joke that you have with those athletes after working with them day-to-day and hour-to-hour. I miss that part.

Craig Mattick:
You going to get any of those grandkids in gymnastics? Maybe coach them?

Sheri Keck:
No. A couple of them are doing it. No, they haven't pushed them so much that way. They're in the soccer scene.

Craig Mattick:
They get Grandma. That's what they need.

Sheri Keck:
I know it. I said, "Why don't you pick this up?" So they've done a little bit of it, but not ... My kids didn't start until they were in kindergarten first and they did fine. These guys are just in that area. I just hope they do some kind of sports, because I feel like you can learn so much from athletics.

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