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Criag Mattick: Welcome to another edition of In Play. I'm Craig Mattick. Every so often, there's a debate on a list. It's been going on for decades. Most of the names on the list have changed; well, except for one. The debate is, when it comes to sports, who makes up the Mount Rushmore of sports in South Dakota? You got Becky Hammon, Mike Miller, Randy Lewis, Adam Vinatieri, Garney Henley. I mean, you could put a dozen people there. But there is one who will always be at the top of that list. He won the gold medal in the 1965 Olympics in Japan; wasn't supposed to win it, but he won it in dramatic fashion. And no other American has won the 10,000 meters since he did it. Books and movies have been made about him. He's still on the speaking tour. He's traveling all across the country and the world. He's the great Billy Mills.
Thank you for joining us today on In Play, Billy. You and your wife, Pat, are busier than ever. You're traveling everywhere. What's the motivation for all of your travel?
Billy Mills: The motivation is we love to travel. We love to interact with the cultures of the world. And I think a lot of it came from when I was a child and my dad told me to follow the culture's virtues and values. I was 9, 10, 11, 12 years of age. And he also went on and said learn our values; you sit down with other people from other societies, other parts of the world, and compare virtues and values, you'll find we have so much similarity. You'll bond. You can develop friendships. And in the process, you will be able to understand the differences. And my words today, I agree we can get along without harming one another on our differences, and as long as we both want, in a sense, to have a better world.
So I was heading for the Olympic Games, and Oliver Red Cloud, who was a chief in 1990s, the son of the original Chief Red Cloud, he said, "You go to the Olympic Games. Take with you the virtues and values," almost repeating my dad. And he said, "Tell people you come from the heart of everything that is, but ask them, 'What is the heart of everything that is to them, flying into Tokyo? How do they see that it is to the Lakota, is the Black Hills.'"
I looked out the window. I saw Mt. Fuji. It was so powerful. In a sacred manner, my thoughts were, "Wow, this has to be the heart of everything that is for the Japanese." So we love to travel, and we love to find out, what is the heart of everything that is to other societies?
Criag Mattick: It was just over a year ago, you went back to Tokyo. It was the site of the '64 Olympics. It was the 50th anniversary of your historic gold medal run. What made that trip special for you?
Billy Mills: I think that you're probably thinking about when I went back, I asked to go to the stadium. It was beginning to rain. And I was not allowed a victory lap. There's no official victory lap at the Olympic Games. But men and women take them, and they're allowed to experience the moment of history. But I was not allowed to. I was told there was one runner on the track injured and had not finished, but he was attempting to finish. And I was told, "We must not distract from the runner that is injured. Finishing was going to be his moment." And as soon as he finished, it was almost time for the next race.
So I always wanted to have my victory lap. We go back to Tokyo. I just recently had knee surgery from a downhill skiing injury. And it began to rain. Patricia's with a couple photographers and some journalists at the finish line. I told them, "I'm going to take my victory lap." And I started jogging. It felt so peaceful. I felt so content. And as I continued to jog, emotions began to flow, coming off the final curve, where I knew I was going to win, and that I had to take every ounce of energy into that attempt, and I could win. But I had to choose to win. And it was so powerful. It was just one more try, one more try. I may never be this close again. I've got to do it now, on the wings of an eagle.
My emotions as I jogged down the finish line on the victory lap were so powerful, and I started crying. I didn't want them to see me crying, so I looked up. I turned around and jogged back up the track, 40 meters, and let the raindrops wash my teardrops away. And then I continued finishing my victory lap. And Patricia had stepped out on the track and applauded me as I went across the finish line. And that was just so powerful. I completed my Olympic journey. And she had previously told me, as I had 30 meters to go, I'm going by where she's sitting, she's 14 rows up, three feet in, in the direction of the finish line. And she had a little camera filming me. And 15 yards from the finish, everybody stood up in front of her and she couldn't see. Then she saw my arms and my hands go up in a victory sign. And that's how she knew that I won.
So we'll be going back to Tokyo. We're going back to the world track and field championships, which are in Tokyo, of course, the new stadium in Tokyo. But they did remove the names of the gold medalists from the 1964 Olympics. And they placed them on the wall outside of the new Olympic stadium. So I'm anxious to go and just look up 10,000 meters and see my name.
Criag Mattick: That last lap that you took, great story, Billy. You didn't get pushed over by Gammoudi or Clarke, did you, on that last lap? What a story it was, because you had Mohammed Gammoudi of Tunisia, and Ron Clarke of Australia, and you, you were fighting in that last lap, back in '64. And those two guys tried to push you over, trying to get out of the way. But you came back and you won by 4/10ths of a second for the gold medal.
Billy Mills: Yeah, the race started, and the victory pursuit started years, years earlier, when I was small, and my mom died. And my dad told me I had broken wings, and it takes a dream that he had broken wings. He said, "The dream takes you down a path, and you find a passion, positive passion in life. You develop your skills that equal your passion. Bring them together; magic happens. And one or two of the magical things you do just may be looked upon as a miracle."
And then he died when I was 12, and that world came tumbling down. And I chose running, trying to make the Olympic team, trying to win a gold medal, as my way of healing my broken soul. I was on the verge of suicide my junior year in college. So I started pursuing wanting to make the team in three events: 5, 10, and the marathon. I made the team in the marathon and the 10,000. But one year before the Olympic Games, Mohammed Gammoudi beat me in Belgium at the World Military Championships. I finished third. I was leading with about 150 meters to go, and Mohammed just blew by me and then won the race.
After the race, he said, "Billy, all you need is more speed." And when I was at the University of Kansas, the coach never, ever allowed me to practice speed. He would use the stereotype, systemic racist comment, not realizing it was, one, not true; secondly, it was racism. He would say, "Billy, you're an Indian. Indians run forever. The Negro is the sprinter." And he had me go on a long run. So Mohammed Gammoudi, after the race, said, "Billy, all you need is more speed. And hopefully, we see each other in Tokyo next year." And at the race in Tokyo, my first step, the gun goes off, in sequence with the gun being fired, my first step and my words: "I will win this race."
So I'm in the race. They almost broke me several times, but going into the lap, about two laps to go, Mohammed Gammoudi, Clarke, me, one, two, three, and Mamo Wolde, from Ethiopia, fell off the pace. There's now three of us, and I knew I had third. And they almost broke me. But I took the lead to slow the pace, two laps to go. Clarke immediately took the lead, picked up the pace for about 30 meters, and he slowed the pace. I knew, I knew I'm in the race to the finish. 300 meters to go, I'm on Clarke's shoulder.
We're lapping a runner, and Clarke lost the Commonwealth Games the year before because they were lapping a runner and he let himself get boxed in. So I legally boxed Clarke in. When he got behind the runner we were lapping, I was starting my drive. Instead, he pushed me into the third lane, put his arm under my elbow and gently pushed me out. I didn't see it as a violation or anything illegal. It's just the tactic he used. But I stumbled. My legs buckled. I thought I was going to fall. I closed on Clarke's shoulder. Gammoudi had started his drive. So he just continued, squeezed between Clarke and I. I didn't see that as any violation. It was just three people vying for a gold medal. And I started going low blood sugar.
Since high school, later I found out I had insulinoma, which is so rare. And very few women get it, even fewer men. But potentially, because of the symptoms, since high school, I've had on my pancreas a tumor that produces extra insulin. It takes me high, low, every day, two or three times. I was going low blood sugar. And you have no energy when you go low blood sugar. I decided to let them get maybe 10 yards ahead of me with 250 meters to go. And I would make one attempt, somewhere with 100 meters, to try to win, one final attempt. Within seconds before coming off the curve, they're eight to 10 yards ahead of me. I'm in third place.
Then, the thought, "I may never be this close again. I've got to do it now." Wings of an eagle. And I was passing a runner. Gammoudi passed. Now, we're 100 meters to go; 80 meters, maybe. I looked at the runner we're passing. They're six, seven yards ahead of me, and the front of the runner's jersey was an eagle. I went back to my dad when I was a little boy: "You do these things, son; someday, you could have wings of an eagle." It was just so powerful; wings of an eagle. I could win. I'm going to win. But I may not get to the finish line first.
And then I contradict myself, but I would still try to get to the finish line first. Wings of an eagle; I can win, I can win. The tape broke across my chest, and the official turned around and he said, "Who are you? Who are you?" And I go, "Oh my God, do I have one more lap to go?" He said, "Finished; new Olympic champion." I go to the track. I told the official: "I have to tell the German the eagle on his singlet helped me win." I do, I start to tell the German, "Your eagle helped me win." I looked, and there was no eagle. It was just imagined. Our perceptions can create us or destroy us. And in this case, I imagined what I needed. And I go back to the official. He said, "Is there anything we can do for you?" And my words were, "I won. Why?" Within moments, Patricia said they're tapping her on the shoulder: "Mrs. Mills, the new Olympic champion requests his wife."
Criag Mattick: Oh, that's awesome.
Billy Mills: They brought her down to me. We hugged, and I started crying. And I said, "I know what I meant." And she said, "What?" My thoughts were, "I'm going to win, but I may not get to the finish line first, but I'm going to try to get there first." Number one thought, "I healed a broken soul, and in the process, I became an Olympic gold medalist." And never, ever thought, 61 years later, I'd still be the only person from the Western hemisphere to ever win that race.
Criag Mattick: You know, Billy, it was be almost 20 years later a movie was made about you. I started Robby Benson. It was back in 1983. Were you involved with that movie at all? Had they talked to you about it? Had they asked you about what they wanted to do with that movie?
Billy Mills: Yeah, but the movie actually was my wife's idea. 1972, she called in to the United States Olympic Committee and she said, "I would like as many pictures of Billy during his Olympic race eight years ago, 1964, as many photos as you would be willing to send us." The reply from the United States Olympic Committee was, "We don't have any pictures of Billy." And it shocked her.
As we discussed it, she said, "I'm not going to let what happened to Jim Thorpe happened to you." And I said, "Pat, I'm no Jim Thorpe." Jim Thorpe, to me, is an Olympic god. He dwells atop Mt. Everest. And Zeus is the Olympic god. I said, "Thorpe is there with him." All I have is the right to climb Mt. Olympus. But before sunset, I have to be down off the mountain. I'm no Jim Thorpe.
And she got some photos from the United States military, from the Marine Corps. And eventually, the United States Olympic Committee acquired some photos on me. So she contacted Ira Englander, as a producer. She showed me a picture of Robby Benson, and I said, "Wow, if you get to the stage of a movie, that's who I want to play me." And she started pursuing it. I found the financing, with the Ermineskin band of Cree Indians in Canada, and put the movie together. But the movie was supposed to be portrayed as a movie based on truth, not a true story. But I think Disney did not do it in that manner. They portrayed it as a true story.
So in the movie, for example, I had a group of friends, but I didn't feel I could use any of their names. So Graham Greene, who had just departed on his spiritual journey a couple days ago, he was chosen to be Billy's best friend, along with Frank, in the movie. So they were both fictitious people; not feeling I had the right to portray somebody else's life on the big screen; a friend of mine, for example. And when the movie came out, they said, "Billy's life story." And that created quite a bit of conflict within my family. So what I was trying to, with Pat, to portray the possibility that anybody, anybody can have a dream, and have the right to have their dream supported, and if they understood the diversity of the person next to them in a classroom, or standing next to them in a race, that we're all more empowered as human beings, taking a Lakota virtue and a Lakota prayer: we're all related.
Criag Mattick: Billy, 1986, you went on to start the program called Running Strong for American Indian Youth. How long had you been thinking about doing that?
Billy Mills: When you mentioned Running Strong for American Indian Youth, that is so powerful for me to hear, because two things have happened. The first, I was told to try to live the Lakota virtues and values. One of those virtues and values is generosity, and to give away, to give back to other people in need. And my dad challenged me about a giveaway. A lady, as I was walking around a powwow as a young 12-year-old, and my father had just died, and she was receiving a giveaway. People were giving her gifts. I walked by and she said, "You are Sydney's son. He was a good man. He used to help me." And now she's helping people, and they're honoring her with the giveaway. And the first time I thought, "Wow, I wonder if I'll ever be in a manner where I could have a giveaway?"
I leave for the Olympic Games. Oliver Red Cloud again, descendant of Chief Red Cloud, said, "Billy, when you come back from the Olympic Games, you must have your giveaway. You've achieved, because of teachers, or coaches, or mentors and good friends. Now you have to give back to others." Came back with a gold medal, and I did not know how to do this traditional giveaway in contemporary times. And I was struggling. And my wife said, "That's such a beautiful, sacred thought, the Lakota giveaway. Let's do a giveaway in a contemporary way, in the contemporary times. Let's do a contemporary giveaway." And as we thought about it, that became really strong for American Indian youth.
And we get a phone call, Gene Krizek has started a nonprofit. He had a $100,000 grant. He helped different organizations, different parts of society in need. So he wanted to keep doing that. He saw the movie Running Brave, and he said, "Billy, I understand you're organizing a traditional giveaway. Let's work together." So he founded Christian Relief Services Charities. Together, we cofounded Running Strong for American Indian Youth, placed it under Christian Relief Services, which became Christian Relief Charities.
And the compassion of people in America, it just blew us away, that were willing to step forward and say, "We will contribute money for a water well on the Pine Ridge reservation, areas of water, who is being trucked twice a week for drinking, bathing, cooking." And it just went from there. So we have organic gardening projects. We now help connect water lines from the main water line throughout the state, to areas where people live in the reservations. And we're doing that in other communities.
On the 50th anniversary of winning the gold medal, I wanted to do something for the youth, to help the power of their dreams. And the Running Strong staff came up with the idea for our Dreamstarters program. And today, we started with $10,000 grants for 10 people for five years. 50 people in honor of my 50th anniversary of winning the gold medal. And now, we give $20,000 grants to 10 people a year who have a dream, that can empower that community. THey partner with a nonprofit. They send in an application. We pick 10, give them a $20,000 grant. And after five years, we pick five and give them an additional $50,000 grant.
And just one example of our Dreamstarter, Dr. Haase. She's Lakota, who is going to dental school, realized how few Native American dentists there were. And she wanted to recruit, as a young dental student, other Native American young men and women to consider dentistry. She is now responsible for bringing ... oh my gosh, I think it's over 30 people into dentistry, that have become dentists now. She's a dentist. And you can track what she has done, and see how it decreased dental decay, for example; how it increased significantly dental hygiene. And it just goes on from there with these great, great young people, that they have the determination, they have the wisdom, they have the brilliance to help make their culture, traditions, spirituality, along with their dream, into creating the horizon of America's future. And they're believing like I believe. Don't give up on this incredible democratic experiment of democracy.
Criag Mattick: Billy, you are in hall of fames, you've been recognized with honorary doctorates. But a big event in 2021: you're at the White House, and you receive the Presidential Citizens Medal from President Obama. What was that experience like for you?
Billy Mills: The experiences have been very humbling. And the award I received, that has been the most humbling was from the Anti-Defamation League for addressing hate in my life. And I can give you little examples of how I address hate in a positive way. Mohammed Gammoudi, after I won the gold medal at the Olympic Games, he came by the next day. We went for a job. And he congratulated me again, and was trying to communicate something to me that I could not understand. We communicated in a sense, long distance. He never addressed that again.
Now, 2012, we were in London at the Olympic Games. Mohammed, his wife, one of his daughters, Nadia, and my wife, Pat, our eldest daughter, Christy, who was 18 months old when I won't a gold medal at the games. We're all having dinner, we're all visiting. And Mohammed said, "Billy, I was trying to tell you, 1964, the day after your Olympic victory, that I was so happy for you, for you winning the gold medal." And I said, "Mohammed, how could you be happy? I beat you." And he laughed and he said, "No, no, no, no, no. You didn't beat me. You won. Anybody who won a race like you did has to" ... He opened up the palms of his hands, and he looked towards heaven's skies.
And I said, "Mohammed, are you telling me my victory was a gift to me from Allah?" And he goes, "Yes, yes, yes. And in your world, Billy, a gift to you from, in a sense, following your Lakota virtues and values, and Jesus Christ." And he said, "The strength you and I have, I can worship and believe in my creator, and I allow you to love and worship your creator. And in the process, we both won, to make things better for people down the road, generations to come." So the giveaway, in a sense, brought a lot of rescue missions. And it's humbling.
When I was recognized and presented the award at the table for seven Jewish people, my wife and I, Mohammed Gammoudi, his daughter, and Dr. Hussein Haleem, an Olympic marathoner from the Maldives ... now, there were three people of Islamic faith, seven of Jewish faith, and my wife and I, Christian. And we talked about how we need better people to make the world a better place. And that, today, remains the award that has humbled me to the greatest extent.
Criag Mattick: Billy, you turned 87 recently. You've been married to a great woman. You talked about Pat, who, by the way, an accomplished artist herself. You guys make a great pair, by the way. You've been married, what, 63 years? How did you guys meet?
Billy Mills: Pat and I will be married 64 years this coming January.
Criag Mattick: Congrats.
Billy Mills: Yeah, 64 years. Yes, I turned 87. We're still working. We're very involved in Running Strong for American Indian Youth.
Criag Mattick: Yes, you are.
Billy Mills: Pat's my agent. I'm giving a number of presentations a year. She was greatly responsible for getting me to meet Donna Janell Bowman, who in 2014 was studying the Lakota culture, and was studying me, and wanted to do a book on me. And I told her I was not interested, but I really was. But I had a difficulty: I wanted to be honest and truthful in my total being.
So I wanted to do a children's book, but I didn't exactly know if I could portray my great-grandfather, Danny Mills, English and Scottish, if I could portray him in the manner that I wanted to. And Pat said, "This young lady, Donna Janell Bowman, an author, a writer, she wants to do a children's book on you." And I told her we were going to be doing one, so if she was to come out and meet us, I would say no.
Five years later, Pat said, "She's going to come visit us, Billy. You've got to talk to her." She walked in with her son, who was in college, participated in track and field. And we had our little conversation. And she started talking, and it was, oh my God, a couple things she said. The first was ... She's got a lot of research on me; written, documented history. "What I don't know though, Billy, is what it's like, you being a Native American. I've read about it. And I figured, I read about your world. I've lived through it. I'm half white. But something's missing."
So we talked. And during the conversations, it was, "Wow, she's bringing to me what I'm trying to find out about my great-grandfather." And I knew instantly, "I've got to work with her." Before I brought that up, she said, "Billy, I don't want to do a book without you. If you don't want to work with me, I'll give you everything that I've written." And it was like, "Oh my gosh, I need to spend more time with this lady." We talked, and she basically could have done a book without me that would be quality. And I laugh about it. I mean, she says, "You brought oral history, Billy, to the book that I did not know how to put in." And I said, "Donna, you brought a complete book of written history." And together, we finalized the book, Wings of an Eagle.
Criag Mattick: And it's available out there, and you're still out there promoting it. In fact, you'll be in Spearfish, in Rapid City this month. You've been promoting that book for a while now, and traveling the country for it. And great expertise on what that book is all about. Thank you for sharing that, Billy.
I've got two quick questions for you, Billy, as we wrap things up. One: where is your gold medal from the Olympics?
Billy Mills: Okay, my gold medal, we gave to our grandson, Dominic. He was born at like 31 weeks, and as a little child, had some struggles. And he's gifted. He's got some brilliant ... he's a ferocious reader. In the 8th grade vocabulary, he tested post-graduate level vocabulary. And I saw how, in many ways, we were lucky that he survived his young childhood, when born so premature. So I gave Dominic the gold medal. He knows there's four daughters. He knows all four daughters probably want a share of the gold medal. So I gave Dominic the gold medal.
We completed our trust not long ago, and it goes from me to Pat, legally, to Dominic. He said, "Billy, when it comes to me, I will legally have it to where it's owned between four daughters and me." That was his wish. So at some point in time, it'll be Dominic and my daughters'; our daughters', I should say. And we just saw where several gold medalists, Bob Beamon, sold his gold medal. One of them sold for $1.4 million. I had no desires to sell it. Dominic, our daughters, have no desires to sell it. But at some time, you've got to do something with it.
Criag Mattick: In Play with Craig Mattick is made possible by Horton, in Britton, where smiling at work happens all the time. Apply now, at Hortonww.com. If you like what you're hearing, please give us a five-star review, wherever you get your podcasts. It helps us gain new listeners. This has been In Play with me, Craig Mattick. This is a production of South Dakota Public Broadcasting.
