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Craig Mattick: Welcome to another edition of In Play. I'm Craig Mattick. Today's guest has spent decades involved with high school gymnastics in South Dakota. A Phy Ed teacher, a coach, a judge of gymnastics, and a mentor for gymnastic judges all across the state. Gymnastics, of course, sanctioned in South Dakota back in 1976. So gymnastics is in its 52nd year in the state. Our guest has been a judge at the state meet some 46 times over the past 51 state meets, and she began judging gymnastics back in 1968. She's also a member of the South Dakota Gymnastics Hall of Fame. She's JoAnne Runge of Hartford, and JoAnne joins us today. JoAnne, welcome to In Play.
JoAnne Runge: Well, thank you very much.
Craig Mattick: Well, you've meant a lot to gymnastics in South Dakota, JoAnne. You what, 83? You're still judging gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Yes, I'm still doing it.
Craig Mattick: Yeah. When did you get the interest with gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Well, I went to Augustana College and I was a physical education major. And when I did my student teaching, I did it at Washington High School under a lady Rosie Houk. And she and Peterino who was teaching there were trampoline artists, and she had a class in gymnastics and that's with my student teaching. So when I was with her, she was teaching me everything that the kids did, and then I'd work with the kids, and it just got me started and I loved it.
Craig Mattick: Where did you grow up, JoAnne?
JoAnne Runge: I grew up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
Craig Mattick: Certainly gymnastics was not sanctioned in the state at that time when you were growing up, but what sports were you involved with when you were a kid? We're talking late 50s, early 60s.
JoAnne Runge: When I was growing up, there was no sports for women, period, for girls. There was no organized sports. So we had our own sports. We played softball all the time at recess, we climbed trees, we hung by our knees from the swing sets. We had our own gymnastics and our own play. We had nothing until I got to college, and they were just starting to try to get women's sports. And so when I started teaching, that's when we started working on trying to get teams and trying to get them to compete. And it was quite a struggle.
Craig Mattick: The high school years were at Sioux Falls, Washington, weren't they?
JoAnne Runge: I went to Baltic for two years, and then I went to Washington High School for two years. And actually the funny thing is that my mother went to Augustana also, and she also went to Washington High School. And when she was in high school, she lettered in basketball. But when I went to school, there was nothing like that.
Craig Mattick: So not a lot of sports to be involved with. Just extracurricular activities back then at Washington?
JoAnne Runge: No, you could be a cheerleader. That was it.
Craig Mattick: Oh, man. Well, you graduate and you go to Augie. Did you always want to be a teacher?
JoAnne Runge: Well, there was only several choices. You could be a secretary, you could be a nurse, you could be a teacher. So I chose being a teacher.
Craig Mattick: That first teaching job out of Augustana, where'd you go?
JoAnne Runge: Here in South Dakota.
Craig Mattick: Oh, oh. And did you teach phy ed at that time?
JoAnne Runge: Taught physical education in junior high and the high school, and we started a unit in gymnastics for the first time.
Craig Mattick: Even though you didn't know much about the sport itself, right?
JoAnne Runge: Right. And there again, it was just starting. Like I said, I learned from this gal, and then you go to clinics and you go to classes and you go wherever you can, and whatever you learned, you taught to the next person.
Craig Mattick: The old Phy Ed class has changed a lot over the years, JoAnne. In fact, some schools aren't even doing Phy Ed classes. What were those Phy Ed classes like, back in the '60s?
JoAnne Runge: Well, actually when we were in Sioux Falls, we had a good program going under Dave Evans, and we had units so that we had a unit of basketball and we had a unit for gymnastics, and we had to use it for all the different sports. And then we had recreational games and we had dance. We really had a lot to offer the kids, and it was required. Everybody, it was required. So they came several times a week, I'd had classes every day, all day, with different kids, and we had archery, we had all kinds of sports that they could use as recreation forever. And it was a good program.
Craig Mattick: Kind of wish we still had it going, right?
JoAnne Runge: Some places they have it, some places they don't. They've cut down on the amount of time required. Some places don't require it at all. They've been going backwards from what we had.
Craig Mattick: Yeah. Dating myself a little bit. Back in the early '70s, we even had square dancing in Phy Ed class. Did you do any square dancing at all?
JoAnne Runge: Oh yes. We had round and rhythm dances for seventh graders, we had square dances for eighth, graders and we had ballroom dancing for ninth graders. And that was one of my favorite classes.
Craig Mattick: Oh. You're in Huron. And then when did you come to Sioux Falls to be a teacher?
JoAnne Runge: I was only in here in one year, and that's when they were building their new school the next year. So I set everything up for the next year and then I had to leave.
Craig Mattick: Oh.
JoAnne Runge: And it was all set up for gymnastics, and the lady that came in, she continued with it. But then I went to Axtell Park Junior High in Sioux Falls.
Craig Mattick: And that year was about what, 1963 or so? I'm trying to remember.
JoAnne Runge: No, I graduated in '66.
Craig Mattick: Okay.
JoAnne Runge: So I taught from '67, '68 in Huron, and then I went to Sioux Falls.
Craig Mattick: But you did help start and develop the gymnastics program in Sioux Falls. How did you do that? What was that development like?
JoAnne Runge: Well, it started with the middle schools, because we started having competition just between the schools in Sioux Falls. So that one unit that we had, one of the sports, we had volleyball, basketball, gymnastics, and track. And gymnastics was one of the sports that we offered to the middle school. And then the high school, they decided to start having a team when they started to sanction, but that took a while.
Craig Mattick: Did it take a little bit to get participants to join the sport of gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Well, you know, middle school kids are up for most anything. So once they got started and they loved it, so we always had a good turnout. And I think even now, kids love it. There's so many things offered now that it's a matter of whether they can get there and they want to participate in that and not something else.
Craig Mattick: Yeah. Practices early on, totally different than today. I mean, today there's much more weight training and stuff going on. What were the preparations for getting into gymnastics like, when it was first getting started in Sioux Falls?
JoAnne Runge: Well, do you mean for the middle school or for the high school or for the competition?
Craig Mattick: Yeah. Once you got to high school, it wasn't quite sanctioned yet across the state, but there was still gymnastics programs going on.
JoAnne Runge: I went to Washington High School for two years as an assistant coach to Lolly Forseth. That was in '76, '77, '78, right in there. And that's when they first started sanctioning it. And it was hard because they didn't want to give us space in competing against all the basketball players and the other programs.
Craig Mattick: Sure.
JoAnne Runge: So we had to fight for our space. Sometimes we ended up with our vault down the hallway instead of in the gym, because we couldn't get in the gym. So it was a battle to be recognized as a sport and to be given the opportunity of having a space so that we could do something. And to get equipment, that was the other big fight because they didn't want to buy equipment, but little at a time, they gradually, I guess, decided that it was a sport that was going to keep on going.
Craig Mattick: Washington won the first state gymnastics meet. This is 1974. And back in '74, you had a novice champion and an open champion. What was the difference between those two?
JoAnne Runge: Oh, everything was different. In fact, I judged that first year. The sport was so new and the skills they were doing were not hard. They were fun, but they weren't real difficult. And as the sport has grown, the sport has gotten more difficult, so you have to train a little bit more. You have to get more strength. So it has grown and changed a lot since then.
Craig Mattick: You mentioned Lolly Forseth. Lolly certainly was one of the beginners of gymnastics and eventually went on to go over to Lincoln, was their athletic director, did a great job. What was it like working with Lolly Forseth?
JoAnne Runge: Well, it was fun. We had a great time. And as being a PE teacher at Axtell Park, I knew Lolly and she said she wanted me as her assistant. So I eventually got there for the two years as her assistant. And she always said I was the stabilizing factor because she would get excited with the girls and watching them and coaching, and I would kind of be the background and taking care of the details of what needed to be done for the meet. So we worked together really well and we had a great time.
Craig Mattick: The Olympics were huge for gymnastics over the years. We're talking the female team USA. And you know what? We weren't very good in the Olympics from the '30s until probably what, the late '60s before Cathy Rigby came aboard. Do you remember the impact Cathy Rigby had on gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Well, of course, everybody knew her. Everybody had pictures of her and they were in the gymnastic magazines. In fact, we would cut them out and put them up the wall, and everyone had someone to look up to and to want to be like. So of course that always helps the sport when they've got somebody saying, "I want to be just like them. I want to do what they do." So it definitely helps.
Craig Mattick: Of course then you have Nadia Comăneci. In 1976, she made even a bigger step, I think, on gymnastics and then Mary Lou Retton in the 80s, and of course the Shawn Johnson, Aly Raisman, the Simone Biles. The Americans have won what, three of the last four team titles in the Olympics. Did you see the effects of those big Olympic jumps with the growing popularity of the sport here in South Dakota?
JoAnne Runge: Oh, absolutely. So every time you have the Olympics, you've got different people, new faces, and of course they're younger, so there's always someone to look up to and someone to want to be like. And as those years went on, what they did was harder and more amazing. And we have the club sports, so a lot of times girls will be in the club sports and they'll come to the high school. So our high school program has grown because we've got a lot of girls that have put a lot of time into gymnastics, and now they go high school and they're really good gymnasts and our competition has grown. So yes, without that, I don't know, they would struggle, I think.
Craig Mattick: 1968, you started judging gymnastics. What led you to do that?
JoAnne Runge: Well, my supervising teacher when I was at Augustan and took that supervising class with Rosie Houk, she said, "We are starting gymnastics in the colleges, and we need judges. And we're having a meeting and you better be there. Well, you do what your supervising teacher tells you to do, so I went to the meeting and I started judging then and I've judged ever since.
Craig Mattick: Well, you've watched a ton of gymnastics performances, whether the vault, the beam, the floor exercise. What's the toughest part of judging an event?
JoAnne Runge: Being consistent with your judging, judging exactly what you see, and applying the rules to what you're seeing, and being consistent with... Doesn't matter what the... leotard comes up or who the girl is or where she came from or anything. You judge what you see and that's your job. And that's the hardest, I think, is to be consistent and to apply those rules to everybody the same.
Craig Mattick: Of all of the events in the sport of gymnastics, is there one that is the toughest to judge, whether it's the beam or floor exercise? Is there one that is the toughest to
JoAnne Runge: That's a loaded question, because it depends on the person and your background. New judges, we usually start them out with beam because it's a little bit slower, and so you can get down all the things that they're doing and get them down on paper a little faster. Some people have trouble with vault because it's so fast and you have to see everything in a second and be able to get it down. If you're looking at higher level, probably bars gets harder as a harder level, because they're, again, it's fast, they're turning, they're moving, and you got to see it all. So for me, I love bars, but I'd probably say that bars is probably the hardest.
Craig Mattick: When was the time you started feeling comfortable as a judge? I'm assuming those first few years, you're pretty nervous, maybe not being able to look at what you really want to look at when you're judging. But when did you start feeling comfortable being a judge?
JoAnne Runge: Well, I think when I started, I didn't know enough not to be uncomfortable. Because again, it wasn't that hard, the rules were a lot easier, the skills were a lot easier, so it wasn't that hard. But as they developed and got harder skills and you start judging the higher levels and doing the bigger meets, then you start getting a little nervous because you're thinking, "I've got to get this right. I can't cheat the girl. I've got to make sure I know what I'm doing so I get the score right for the girl." And then you get a little nervous. And so I probably am different than a lot of judges who would be starting now and jumping in and starting to judge, because I started from the beginning. But I have been in situations where I've definitely been nervous.
Craig Mattick: I'm assuming the better the athlete, the easier it is to judge.
JoAnne Runge: Well, we always say it's easier to judge the higher level. If you can get everything down and you can do it, again, it depends on the level of kids you're used to judging. Because if you don't see the higher levels and then all of a sudden you just start judging them there, it takes a while. But they have less execution errors and less problems. So yes, in that way, they're easier to judge.
Craig Mattick: Over all these years, how many perfect scores have you handed out?
JoAnne Runge: Ooh. Two.
Craig Mattick: Two?
JoAnne Runge: Two. I judged high school state meet once and we gave a 10 on the beam. And that was the one and only in high school. And then I also judged club and two years ago I was in Mesa down here judging a meet, and we were judging the top level girls on vault, and we gave a 10. Which means and then she was really, really, really good. And those are the only two that I've ever given. So you remember that.
Craig Mattick: Lucy Lindskov of Isabelle, an icon and a pioneer with gymnastics here in South Dakota. And we lost Lucy in September of 2025. What do you remember about Lucy?
JoAnne Runge: Lucy and I started judging about the same time. We were judging competitions that were not sanctioned, they were called play days, and that's when we got to know each other. And so we were really good friends from then on. She was teaching at Whittier and I was at Axtell Park, and of course we competed against each other all the time. The PE teachers always had meetings together and everything. And then later on, she and I traveled to a lot of gymnastic congresses and competitions and so on together. So she was great. She loved gymnastics and she would do all kinds of things for the organization and the sport. She was always thinking about what we can do for gymnastics. So she was great.
Craig Mattick: Both of you went on the national level as far as when it comes to judging. What was that like? USA gymnastics, national ratings, working with national judges. What was that like for both of you guys?
JoAnne Runge: That was very exciting and I loved every minute of it. There again it's a lot different than high school, you're judging the girl, and execution and the amplitude and all that is all the same. But some of their rules are different, and as the sport has grown, the rules have changed and made it more difficult to judge, but you have the opportunity of seeing a lot of really good gymnastics. I did a lot of regional meets, and that was always one of the reasons I kept doing it because I loved trying to judge those meets.
Craig Mattick: What things made it more difficult to judge? What were they trying to do?
JoAnne Runge: In high school, you have one set of rules to judge all the kids. It doesn't matter their level. They could be a beginner gymnast, they could be a real experienced gymnast. You judge them as one set of rules. In club, you've got a lot of levels, and each level has something that's different. They might have to have more requirements, their special requirements are different. They have compulsory levels, they have three, four, five, six, the optional, seven, eight, nine, 10. You have all these levels, so it's harder to know all the rules, and you have to take a lot more tests in order to get your rating.
Craig Mattick: Oh, you got to take a test for gymnastics. How do you pass a test when you're coming to judging gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Well, there's two tests. One is written, which is over all the rules, and one is a film, which is judging what you see. So they show a girl doing a routine and you judge it, and your score is supposed to come up within a certain range of the correct score. There's other people have gotten together and judged it and come up with a range that you should be in. So you have two tests, and you have to do that every four years. So you have to keep up with the sport because it's always changing.
Craig Mattick: You've been mentoring new judges as well in South Dakota for a long time. When did you decide you thought you wanted to be a mentor to all those judges?
JoAnne Runge: Well, we had an organization, our gymnastics or high school gymnastics judges association, and you need to continually get new judges. People move on and do other things or they can't do it anymore, whatever the reason. So we always have to have new judges and we try to get more people to start. And in order to do that, you have to help them because you can't just drop them in a chair and say, "Judge." You have to help them a little bit, show them what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to do it." And so you have to have mentors and someone to ask questions. If they have questions, have somebody that they can call and ask questions, and someone that they can sit next to and practice if they want to. Long time ago, we decided we need to help the people coming in, so that's when it started.
Craig Mattick: Of all of the state gymnastics tournaments and the meets that you've been to here in South Dakota, I think you've done 46 of the state meets, JoAnne, are there any athletes that you remember which really stuck out during your time as a judge for gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Oh, dear. That's a hard question. If I had my programs in front of me, I could go through and I could tell you names, but I can't remember. I honestly can't remember a lot of names right offhand.
Craig Mattick: Has there ever been a time where the athlete was so good you forgot you were judging, you were just in awe of watching them perform?
JoAnne Runge: Yes, that's their purpose. So that's one of the things they try to do is to be so good that you're going, "Wow." And you're not even judging, especially on floor, because floor is a performance. You can get caught up with watching them if they're so good and you're saying, "Wow, that was beautiful." And yes, sometimes you forget, "Oh, I've got to be writing this down." So sometimes that happens.
Craig Mattick: I'm assuming too that if there's an athlete who, maybe they're just getting started, maybe it's their first competition and they're not doing very well at all, you almost have to be a supporter for them, don't you, as a judge. It's not like giving them a zero, right? Don't give them a zero.
JoAnne Runge: Well, and you don't like to give the low scores. Of course, I always say it depends, if there's a whole group of them, they're all going to be low scores, there's still somebody who's going to win, going to be on top, and is better than the rest of them. But yeah, you're always rooting for them to do their best. But again, you have to judge what you see. And whatever their score is, they take that score and say, "Hmm, I guess I better go back to the gym and work a little harder, or I need to do these skills better so that she gives me credit for those skills." So I always say, "Don't worry about your score. Just try to improve and take it as something to learn from." And I think most of them do.
Craig Mattick: Do. JoAnne, when did you stop coaching and just kind of stuck with being an official, a judge in gymnastics?
JoAnne Runge: Well, I quit teaching. After I was at Washington High School for a few years, I quit actually teaching the public schools, and I went to the club and coached and taught in the club for another 15 years or so. And I don't know exactly when I quit. It was probably the '90s somewhere that I gave it up. And now I just judge. And I was going in, even when I stopped actually doing a lot of teaching and coaching, I would still go in and watch routines and critique routines every once in a while. But I gradually quit doing that too, so it's been a while since I've done anything like that.
Craig Mattick: JoAnne, you've received the Distinguished Service Award from the South Dakota High School Activities Association, you've received state and national awards from the National Federation Officials Association. What do those awards mean to you, JoAnne?
JoAnne Runge: Well, they mean a lot. They mean that your peers recognize what you've been doing and recognize the amount of time and effort and work that you've put into the sport. And some of them, they recognize what you've done for the sport, for helping girls and women's sports. So they really do mean a lot. I know there's quite a few of them, but each one is a little different and has a different reason for. So I appreciate those very much.
Craig Mattick: JoAnne, what do you say to people who may want to become a gymnastics judge? Where would you lead them?
JoAnne Runge: I would say we need you, we want you, and just let us know and we'll get you started.
Craig Mattick: JoAnne, if you were going to give yourself a score for your performance of all these years as a teacher and a coach and a judge in gymnastics, what would that score be?
JoAnne Runge: Well, I would hope it would be in the nines somewhere.
Craig Mattick: Not a 10?
JoAnne Runge: Which is pretty good, but never as good as you'd like to be.
Craig Mattick: What's the future of gymnastics in South Dakota?
JoAnne Runge: Well, every year they're always saying, "Oh, it's dying and they're not going to have it very long," et cetera, and I don't believe that. I think that we still are viable, we still have a good group of schools that are putting their time and effort and money into, so they're not going to be going anywhere soon. Some places we have to fight a little bit harder to keep it, but for right now, I think it's pretty healthy, and hopefully we'll be able to keep it that way.
Craig Mattick: What are you going to remember the most or what do you remember the most about all of your associations with gymnastics in South Dakota?
JoAnne Runge: Well, of course you remember all the people that you've known through gymnastics. It's like a family, a community. So all those people that I've been associated with, have known, all the coaches, all the people that work in gymnastics, you always remember them. And then of course the kids, which is the most important part of gymnastics is the kids. I've loved working with them and seeing them grow up. Some kids I've judged at six years old in club all the way through high school, and so you remember them and you watch them grow. It's been quite a journey.
Craig Mattick: Yeah. Judging gymnastics since 1968. How many more years you want to judge?
JoAnne Runge: Well, I'm giving up club this next year because there's another big test and I decided I'm not going to take the test anymore. High school, like I said, I hope I can do the state meet this year, and then I'm just taking one year at a time. Depends on how I feel next year if I will do it.
Craig Mattick: In Play with Craig Mattick is made possible by Horton in Britton, where smiling at work happens all the time. Apply now at hortonww.com. If you like what you're hearing, please give us a five-star review wherever you get your podcast. It helps us gain new listeners. This has been In Play with me, Craig Mattick. This is a production of South Dakota Public Broadcasting.
